August 25, 2021 at 1:06 pm #38008
Working on a Nemeth transcription that has pronunciation appearing inside Nemeth. Here, we've been able to determine that modified letters inside Nemeth should be shown with a dot 4 preceding them. How would we handle stress marks appearing in pronunciation inside Nemeth? Example is attached.August 25, 2021 at 6:43 pm #38011
What an interesting example. Without seeing the rest of the excerpt, I am guessing that this is not being used in "mathematical context". I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that only the equals sign be done in Nemeth. I welcome a conversation about this.
If you could attach the page so we can see this in context, that would be helpful.
LindyAugust 25, 2021 at 7:32 pm #38012
As per this question, vocabulary shown in a mathematical format would be placed inside Nemeth. The use of the equals sign means that the items associated with it should also appear inside Nemeth similar to the expression x=1. From what I understand, we may consider deferring to EBAE, which I believe secondary stress in EBAE is shown as a dot 4. This may lead to some confusion because we're already using the dot 4 before letters to indicate that they're modified.
The page in which this appears is attached although I don't feel like anything else on the page should affect how we treat this if we apply the logic stated above.August 26, 2021 at 11:00 am #38014
Additional information pertinent to understanding context.
There is a pronunciation key (attached) in the book that will appear in every volume as per BF 20.7.3, Item b. The pronunciation key relies on capitalization to show primary stress (see item 1) which means that all stress symbols shown will be secondary stress marks (see item 2).August 31, 2021 at 2:36 pm #38033
Nate, we have been discussing this and have decided that the kindest way to transcribe this is simply to transcribe only the equals symbol in Nemeth. Since it is a Nemeth transcription, the UEB equals sign is not an option. By using the Nemeth symbol, you remain true to the print.
Defaulting to EBAE is not something we should be considering. Use the established UEB symbols and Braille Formats guidelines (Section 20) to transcribe the pronunciation and stress marks.
It wouldn't hurt to explain what you are doing in a transcriber's note, or on the Transcriber's Notes page.
Lindy (and the committee)
( :September 14, 2021 at 4:57 pm #38084
Hello and thank you for your responses, however, from these responses I'm having a difficult time gaining a consistent understanding of when to open Nemeth. I've found a number of examples throughout the Ask an Expert forums that could (most likely) better explain the perspective that I understand, and we can hopefully identify what I'm not fully grasping.
As shown in Stress_Mark_Nemeth5.png (attached) you'll see that the moderator on the forum did not recommend only including the symbols of comparison/operation inside Nemeth, rather that the dot-4 was used to show emphasis.
As shown in Stress_Mark_Nemeth6.png (attached) you'll see that the moderator suggests that even though it's vocabulary, it's also an equation, and as such, is shown inside Nemeth.
Another example here is from Stress_Mark_Nemeth10.png (attached). The moderator instructs that "the words in those math statements are part of the math problem" and "because they are within an inequality or an equation that uses a Nemeth symbol, the numbers and words are transcribed in Nemeth."
The only difference that I understand from the three examples just listed and from the example we're discussing on this thread is the existence of the stress marks.
Can you explain why we'd include the vocabulary from the first example, the modified symbol in piñata from the second, and all items on the third example, but then would only include the equals sign when there's pronunciation involved? And can you please explain how is "ap′-ō-TŌ-sis=a falling off" fundamentally different than x=1?November 23, 2021 at 3:28 pm #38311
Nate, I didn't mean to leave your question unanswered. I still stand by my original suggestion, using UEB to show the diacritics and Nemeth only for the math symbols (equals sign in this case).
The examples from earlier posts that you found are good to compare the decision-making process regarding which code to use.
1. In the math word problem example from May 2019, (18 kazoos ...), a Spanish eñe occurs in the word piñata. A dot 4 was suggested here, which is a remnant of EBAE but surely works well in this new context and I see no reason not to fall back on this technique. A transcriber's note would explain this use of the dot 4 since Nemeth Code does not define this dot as an accent.
2. In the second example you pulled from July 2021 (geocentric), the use of math symbols in these pronunciations does not in itself make this a "math statement". However, we do not use UEB math symbols in a Nemeth transcription. Since the pronunciation method in this book example uses italics to show stress, transcribing them in Nemeth Code is not a problem to transcribe or to read. Since (46) is more commonly used in math as the Greek-letter indicator, and since (6, 3) is more commonly used as the single-word switch indicator, it might be helpful to mention in a transcriber's note that, within the pronunciations, (46) indicates an italicized word and (6, 3) terminates the italic typeform within an unspaced word.
3. The second example (March 30, 2021) is a nice clear example of using words in a math problem, using Nemeth throughout.
4. Regarding your project, the pronunciation markings provide important information concerning the topic at hand, which is how to pronounce a word. As with example 2, above, the use of math symbols in these pronunciations does not in itself make this a "math statement". However, Nemeth does not have symbols for diacritics. Transcribing diacritics and stress marks is covered thoroughly in UEB, Section 4 and in Braille Formats, Section 20.
I hope this clarifies the decisions made in these four distinctly different scenarios.