Forum Replies Created
I do not think a tactile graphic or description is needed. The information under each picture accurately portrays the actions taking place.
Hi Georgia Braille, I just want you to know I'm working on a response. I've forwarded your query to the BANA TG Committee. We are working together to prepare a response. Not until we received your question did we realize the topic of Cargograms was not covered in the Guidelines for Tactile Graphics. I will get back to you just as soon as we have some information. Diane
See the May 9th response...ds
Again I checked with some of the BANA & NBA Nemeth Committee members. The general concensus about your print example is as follows:
We really cannot think of a way to clearly represent this print drawing as a tactile graphic.
To separate it into layers of information seems to negate what they are trying to relay. It would be a wasted effort to try to represent a 3 dimensional coordinate system of this sort into a tactile graphic.
The first graphic labeled "Points in Space" could be briefly described after the caption is brailled, but I would not try to go into too much detail. I don't know if it is appropriate to suggest in a TN that a creative partner be sought out to demonstrate these diagrams with 3-dimensional models, but that is certainly what we would do in the classroom.
Lindy, Dorothy, Betty and Diane
I checked with the some of the BANA & NBA Nemeth committees and here is our combined response:
Represent the main line with braille dots as we usually do, but use a tactile method to do the additional lines.
Since the red, blue, and purple lines printed ON the main number line represent each SOLUTION, standard braille format for number lines is appropriate there.
The colors, as you say, are insignificant so they do not need to be identified. Using a tactile method for the other lines will work nicely. I would braille each inequality label aligned above each arrowhead.
Betty, Lindy, Dorothy & Diane
Hi Katrina...I've contacted the BANA TG Guidelines authors and this is our combined response:
The example of the Graphics Symbols Page (GSP) that is shown in the Guidelines is taken from a tactile graphics supplementary volume of a physical geography book that has both maps and graphs. One of the points that this GSP was meant to show was how the symbols may be categorised: “On maps” and “On graphs”.
In a Mathematics textbooks, we do not include the symbols for the components of Cartesian coordinate graphs such as grid lines, axis lines, point symbols, plotted lines, etc. because it limits their use on other graphics throughout the volume. For example if we defined a certain line as the axis line, we would not be able to use that line for anything else within the volume. Also it is not really valuable content to simply define a point as a point. or a line as a primary line. We have many examples in the guidelines where lines are included in a drawings but not identified in a key for the braille reader. (See Unit 5, the Patterns example--the dashed lines are not labeled or identified in a key. Unit 6, section 126.96.36.199 bar graphs, the "Pay for Animal Actors" graph does not include a key for the axis lines and lead lines. The GSP example is not a Mathematics specific example, and was not intended to recommend that mathematic diagrams symbols and lines should to be listed. It should also be noted that the intent of the GSP, unlike the Special Symbols Page, that shows “unusual” symbols, is to show commonly used symbols (rivers, mountains, water). This eliminates the need to repeat them throughout the volume as well as ensures that graphics symbols used for the same item are always the same.
A simple answer to a complex question is that a key must be included for the reader when something is used within a graphic that needs to be identified for a student. Unless the reader needed to be able to identify a certain area on the graphic as the "grid lines" the grid lines do not need to be identified in a key.
Use of keys to include information you listed in your email is a misinterpretation of the intent of the GSP. The Tactile Graphic Supplement that accompanies the Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics shows many example of the proper use of keys. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
Hi Katrina...I am going to discuss your question with the BANA TG Committee. I'll get back to you with an answer as soon as I can...Diane
The dot(circle)that you are using would have to be large enough to clearly be able to tell that you were using only "half a dot (circle)." The squares around the dot (circle) would have to be large enough to have some blank space around them so as to clearly be able to distinguish the dot(circle)from the square around it. This means you will have to draw the hundreds square really big. ... or ... you could explain in a key that a shape represents half a shaded square. For example in a key, explain that a triangle represents a half shaded square. Then in the half shaded square on the diagram, put in a small triangle shape. You would have to use a large enough triangle so the student can tell it's a triangle. Diane
A printable version of the TG Guidelines is available for download from the BANA website. Here is the link:
Choose the "Enhanced PDF version." It is a large file and will be compressed for downloading.
All the graphic masters for the Example Supplement have been given to APH. APH will be responsible for duplicating and selling the hard copy Examples Supplement. They have not named a date for when it will be available for sale. A print hard copy of the Guidelines will also be available for purchsae from APH if you don't want to print your own copy.
edited by dspence on 5/5/2012
I’m not sure I really understand your question. If the print shows a cube, you should be drawing a cube in braille. If some of the lines are solid and some are broken, your braille drawing should show the same distinction in lines. If the print cube includes measurements, the braille drawing should include measurements applied at the same locations…except there are specific requirements listed below showing how the measurement lines should be presented. (i.e. never break a line with the number, omit the arrowheads, make sure the measurement lines go to the endpoints of the diagram, etc.)
Are you saying that if the print showed a cube, you redrew the diagram in four parts? One part showing the front, one diagram for the side, one diagram for the top and one diagram for the bottom view?
The new rules for presenting 3-d shapes are as follow:
Some of the basic points in Section 6.11.1 and 6.11.2 are--
o Show the measurement lines as one solid line, don’t break the line with the measurement length
o Don’t insert the arrowheads at the ends of the measurement lines even if they’re shown in print.
o The measurement lines should meet the endpoint of the diagram
o Insert a TN telling the student that the ‘hidden lines” are shown as broken lines.
o Assure that there is a tactile distinction between the lines than can be seen and the lines that are hidden.
o Enlarge the drawing proportionately if necessary.
o Make the hidden lines (dashed or dotted) less prominent than the visible lines.
o Sparingly use shading and only if required for understanding of the concept
My opinion would be to place the text within the energy pyramid diagram as shown in print. The objective of this exercise is to readily see the proportional size of each triangle one compared to the other. The perimeter of the triangle allows you to do this and therefore the text within each section does not interfer with the student's ability to recognize the size of each piece. In pie charts or spinners, the labels are on the outside so that the student can clearly see how the circle is divided.
Diane Spence's response:
Is this transcription single-sided or interpoint? My answer is also coming from the "textbook" perspective and NOT from the perspective of this item as part of a "standardized test booklet."
1). For the convenience of the braille reader, is the transcriber allowed to move the question to a position on a facing braille page (similar to a graphic key placement)? DS: yes the transcriber is allowed to move the question to a facing page and have the graphic follow on an odd page. If this is a one time situation within the volume, you are correct in stating that you would place a TN at the point of the single presentation. However, if you had several instances of this situation and the book was a single-sided book, you may want to add a note on the TN page explaining the presentation throughout the volume.
2). Is there a preference? DS: I think it is in the best interest of the braille reader to have the question and diagram on facing pages when you can get it to fit. It keeps the braille reader from having to flip back and forth or read "sandwich" style (one hand on each page, on top of each other with the braille page in between). This philosophy was agreed upon by the BANA TG Committee and the primary reason we said that keys should be on a page facing the diagram if it wouldn't fit on the same page.
3). Also, according to the new guidelines, would the blank page be numbered? DS: If the material is for students in Grade 4 and above...and is double-sided, then you would account for the blank braille page just as you have done in your example. Every braille page (front and back) should be assigned a braille page number. It is an agency decision whether or not the even braille page numbers are printed on the page. Even if the even braille page number is not printed on the braille page, it is assigned or reserved for that braille page.
If this is for a single-sided braille transcription, then the backs of the braille page are not counted in the running page counts. In your example above, the "braille text from previous page" information would be printed on braille page 17, the question would be on braille page 18 (the facing page) and the graphic would be on braille page 19.
4). Sometimes in this same textbook, a grid will apply to more than one question and the questions will also fit with the above placement. But, other times the questions may be too long to be placed in this manner. Is consistency an issue? Is it one way or the other throughout the book… or is each set of questions considered separately when placing graphics? DS: I think consistency is always important, however, I think each set of questions should be treated individually. If you have a situation where one cartesian graph could be used for multiple questions, would you present the graph first followed by the questions or would you present the questions first followed by the graph? It may be difficult to make one decision for how to present graphics in an entire book, and then force each different graphic situation to fit into that decision. As long as you remember to keep the student informed about how the information is presented, so they don't have to "wonder" where things are, you should be fine.
OK...it looks like "romanticbiro" (Ibraam from Egypt) is asking for someone to help him make some graphics. If any of you tactile graphic artists are available to help, please contact him at the email address below:
This is a tough question. Certainly many times (due to space constraints) we omit certain things off a graphic and explain the omission in a TN before the graphic, e.g. //The degree signs are omitted in the drawing below.// //The "inch" abbreviation is omitted from the measurements below.//
However leaving off the open and close simple fraction indicator or omitting the numerator in the fraction is a drastic omission which could interfer with the student interpreting the information correctly. I would not recommend making either of these modifications. I've sent an email to Betty Marshall (NBA Nemeth Committee Chair) and asked for her opinion as well.
yes i need support from tactile graphics artist
am totally blind and need to know the right direction to produce this task successfully
thanks very much for your care and help