March 9, 2012 at 10:29 am #11027Chris ClemensKeymaster
The following question is for a Nemeth transcription. Please provide a Rule cite if there is one. We are not having much luck with that.
Should the bulleted list be transcribed using Nemeth indention of 1-5 for the first column, and 3-5 for the bulleted items? Or should it be transcribed using Braille Formats indention of 1-5 for the first column, and 3-7 for the bulleted items?
NOTE that there are multiple bulleted items/lists in the second column. Please see attached for the example.
Thank you in advance for the help.March 9, 2012 at 10:45 am #21316Lindy WaltonModerator
Thank you for your clear question with attached illustration.
The Nemeth Code indentation pattern you cite applies to itemized material, which this is not. When there is no special format provided in the Nemeth Code, we follow rules and guidelines of EBAE and Braille Formats. The print document shows a table with bulleted items. It contains no displayed mathematical expressions. Follow the Literary Braille format of your choice regarding various ways to present this material. The one you are considering (1-5 and 3-7) works well.March 9, 2012 at 1:29 pm #21317Lindy WaltonModerator
I can completely accept your response to use BF97 to complete the bulleted list. I do wonder however why the Nemeth Code does not provide for a specific rule for Non-Numerated, Non-Lettered main entries with subdivisions, such as a bulleted list.
In a posting response for Displayed Material on 5/21/2010, https://www.nationalbraille.org/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=307 by Dorothy, the following question was asked:
Hello, I have the following itemized and displayed text in Nemeth:
1. Large and small animals … (should this itemized text be in 1-3 or 1-5?)
(displayed text below: Does the displayed text go in 5-3 or 3-7?)
Give some names of small animals:
Give some names of large animals:
The following response was given:
… I think I would treat this as a main item with subdivisions.
Let me offer this as food for thought.
I find the response given above gives credence to the thinking of treating non-numbered, non-lettered lists, and/or bulleted items as main entries and subdivisions according to the Nemeth Code in Rule XXV, §191.b.i, and ii (Main entry in cells 1-5 and the subdivision in cells 3-5). Otherwise, the displayed material following the numbered item above should have been displayed in cells 5-3 according to Rule XXV, §191.a.i, and iii, page(s) 193-194 of the Nemeth Code.
I would like to point out that I am aware when the Nemeth Code does not provide for a rule the transcriber must conform to BF97, BANA Updates 2007—2011.
I think in this case it would be helpful to come to a consensus on the main entries and subdivisions of non-numbered, non-lettered lists, like a bulleted list.March 11, 2012 at 7:00 pm #21315Chris ClemensKeymaster
The best encouragement I can offer in response to your plea for the Nemeth Code to provide us with a specific rule for unitemized main entries with subdivisions, such as a bulleted list is this: The Nemeth Code is not an independent code meant to cover every aspect of a textbook publication. We use all of the resources available to us regarding a literary braille transcription in addition to those that specifically apply to technical works using the Nemeth Code. Some Nemeth formats or rules supersede those followed in a literary work; those not mentioned rely on the literary codes to supply us with rules and suggestions. Your consistent application of whatever format you decide applies will produce an excellent transcription.
A math/science book is not entirely written in mathematical symbols. It contains narrative, illustrations, tables, and --yes-- bulleted lists. As a transcriber your concern is to present the material in a manner which will be consistent so the reader can discern an order that should help with the comprehension of the material. Formats, in any code, are developed in order to attain this goal. The most recent revision of the Nemeth Code came to us in 1972. Its rules have survived three major revisions in the literary braille codes. If there had been overlap written into the Nemeth Code, it would not have stood this test of time.
The sample you sent in your first post is a chart or table, not itemized material. Charts and tables follow Literary braille rules (Braille Formats). The sample you show in your second post is itemized (numbered 1.) followed by what you call an unitemized list. It is not clear to me whether the original advice was referring to Nemeth Code formats or Braille formats, as both have "main items with subdivisions." Personally, I do not see "Give some names of small animals, etc." as a list, but rather as directive text. It would help to see the original document.
If the new Braille Formats suggests treating bulleted lists as itemized material, we will have more to think about. If the BANA math/science committee feels clarification is needed in the Nemeth Code regarding this topic, they will write one. I am sure they would appreciate hearing your concerns.
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