kdejute

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  • in reply to: Enclosure Indicator #43449
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Last, but not least, you asked, "Wouldn't the enclosure symbol be easier to understand when preceded by the shape termination symbol?"

    I cannot say whether that would be easier to understand. However, I can point out that section 14.3 is titled "Combined shapes," and its first paragraph says that physical enclosure takes two symbols and makes a new, previously undefined symbol. For example, the "circled plus" is a single entity with a meaning all its own that is distinct from the "plus" and the "circle." So, the enclosed shape is part of the overall shape, and it would be inappropriate to put a shape terminator between the circle and whatever is enclosed.

    I think the next necessary question is, "Does physical enclosure accurately transcribe the meaning of 'circling' in print (like "circle the correct answer")? ... Or would a typeform perhaps do a better job of transcribing the meaning of 'circling' while physical enclosure should be reserved for situations where the enclosing and enclosed shapes become something different from either (like the circled plus described above)? I do not have an answer to that question, and I suspect no one else does for sure either, for now.

    Thank you for sharing your astute questions!

    Please let us know if you need anything more or different.

    –Kyle

    in reply to: Enclosure Indicator #43448
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Third, if we need to indicate "circling" (that is, physical enclosure in a circle) of a symbols-sequence that consists of more than one item, then yes, using braille grouping indicators is a good solution.

    The example you shared is a simple up pointing arrow and a dollar sign circled together:

    ;;$=[<\+@s>

    That symbols-sequence is a grade 1 word indicator, the two-cell symbol for a circle (shape indicator and a full cell), the physical enclosure cell, opening braille grouping indicator, the two-cell symbol for a simple up pointing arrow, the two-cell dollar symbol, closing braille grouping indicator, and then space.

    in reply to: Enclosure Indicator #43447
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Second, if we have to show a transcriber-defined symbol enclosed in a circle, I agree that the following would be the best way to do so (using "physical enclosure" as illustrated in GTM §14.3.1).

    ;;$=[?

    That symbols-sequence is a grade 1 word indicator, the two-cell symbol for a circle (shape indicator and a full cell), the physical enclosure cell, the first transcriber-defined symbol, and then space.

    You have likely already considered all angles of:

    • using the transcriber-defined symbol vs. the transcriber-defined shape
    • with what words you will identify whatever transcriber-defined thing you use
    • where you will identify whatever transcriber-defined thing you use (i.e., on the Special Symbols Page or in a list of special symbols within the text)

    I do think this would be understood by a 10th grade student. 😊

    🧠

    Finally, does the termination of a shape leave the rest of the symbols-sequence in grade 2 (unless it is affected by a grade 1 word or passage indicator)? ...  Many agree with your assessment that according to RUEB2024 §2.5.3, it does. However, the first example in GTM §14.3.1 might indicate otherwise.

    RUEB2024 §2.5.3 says, "Grade 1 mode exists only when introduced by a grade 1 indicator or by a numeric indicator."

    The first example in GTM §14.3.1 is: ;$=["6 (circle enclosing a plus sign) where the cell dots 2-4-6 does not have any grade 1 indicator or numeric mode affect it, BUT it is treated as if it has its grade 1 meaning (physical enclosure). Maybe the argument is that what's physically enclosed is part of the shape and so affected by the shape indicator's limited grade 1 mode (though that would be quite a unique effect for an indicator to have).

    This issue is on the list of things to be clarified by ICEB's technical material code maintenance committee. Right now, I would follow RUEB2024 §2.5.3, as you have suggested.

    🧠

    in reply to: Enclosure Indicator #43444
    kdejute
    Moderator

    First, if you use only a checkmark to indicate a checkmark-within-a-circle, I would likely applaud your choice to simplify where appropriate. The explanation of this checkmark usage should go on the Transcriber's Notes Page. It would probably be appropriate to identify the checkmark itself on the Special Symbols Page, but the use of only a checkmark where print shows a checkmark inside of (or on top of) a circle, is a braille formatting choice and so belongs on the Transcriber's Notes Page. (BF2016 §3.1.1's second paragraph and RUEB §3.28)

    –Kyle

    in reply to: Enclosure Indicator #43443
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Oooh! These are intriguing and clever questions! I will try to respond to them one at a time. –Kyle

    in reply to: Nested Linked Expressions #43435
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Thank you for your question! Before we respond in full, could you please share two clarifying pieces of information?

    First, what is one specific lesson manual or code book that says, "nested linked expressions are displayed material"?

    Second, what is your reasoning for having blank spaces in some places but not in other places (e.g., between the word "tenths" and the symbol ÷ but not between the symbol ÷ and the underscore)?

    –Kyle

    in reply to: Line over letters #43350
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Thank you for asking. We use GTM 7.9 rather than GTM 12 when §12 does not include the specific modifier we need. A right-pointing arrow is covered in §12, so we should follow the guidelines there.

    –Kyle

    .=^: simple right-pointing arrow over previous item

    in reply to: Line over letters #43347
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Second, using UEB for it, we would transcribe a bidirectional arrow over AB as follows:

    ;;<,,ab>.9\wro

    You were close. We do need a grade 1 word indicator to start. We do need braille grouping indicators around AB so that the modifier applies to both letters and not just to B. And, your bidirectional arrow is good. \wro

    Because UEB does not classify "bidirectional arrow over" with the common modifiers in GTM §12, we should look to GTM §7.9 and use the indicator for "expression directly above." .=.9

    Then the arrow does not need any terminator or braille grouping indicators because its start and end are clearly delineated by the arrow indicator and an arrow terminator, respectively. .=| and .=o

    Phew.

    Braille on!

    –Kyle

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by kdejute. Reason: tried to make simbraille all the same size
    in reply to: Line over letters #43346
    kdejute
    Moderator

    First, yes, it is correct to use the two-cell capital letter indicator in front of AB rather than capital A capital B. [Chemistry has different preferences, because its capital letters each mean a totally different element.]

    in reply to: Line over letters #43332
    kdejute
    Moderator

    So, for example, "BC bar" (or "bar over BC") would be transcribed in UEB Math/Science as follows.

    ;;<,,bc>:

    And, "(line segment) AB = (line segment) CD" would be probably be transcribed as follows.

    ;;;<,,ab>: "7 <,,cd>:;'

    –Kyle

    P.S. The DBT codes I would use to get that transcription above are ts e bar e bar te (also in the attached screenshot).

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by kdejute. Reason: capitalized letters in simbraille
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    in reply to: Line over letters #43331
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Yes indeed, Susan! You are so right; for the line segment notation we use UEB's bar over. Braille on! –Kyle

    kdejute
    Moderator

    Thank you. That does help.

    –Kyle DeJute and some APH colleagues

    in reply to: Interpreting 2022 TG Guidelines, Rulers and Nemeth Code #43289
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Thank you. That helps.

    –Kyle DeJute and some APH colleagues

    in reply to: Alignment of arrows #43268
    kdejute
    Moderator

    It is great news that tactile graphic arrows are a possibility for this transcription.

    The committee believes strongly that brailled arrows are confusing in this situation. Tactile graphic arrows would much better fulfil the role of the arrows here, which is to connect a label to a specific piece of the math expression.

    The attached image shows one possible way of placing/arranging the arrows, the expression's pieces, and the labels.

    That possible transcription includes a transcriber's note that says, "The equation is shown twice in braille: once without labels and again with labels."

    Then the equation (2×_ = _) is brailled on its own line. Next comes a blank line. Then the labels ("cups each day", "days in 2 weeks", and "total cups") are brailled on one line, with two blank cells between the labels. The labels are followed by two lines where the arrows are drawn, all pointing straight downward to the line where the equation is brailled again spaced out horizontally so that the arrows can point from each label to the relevant part of the equation.

    Please let us know if you have follow-up questions or notes!

    –Kyle and NBA's UEB Technical Material Committee

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    in reply to: Alignment of arrows #43228
    kdejute
    Moderator

    Thank you for sharing your question, including pictures of the print and your proposed braille! The committee is now discussing it.

    For now, please let me ask: Are tactile arrows a possibility in this transcription?

    –Kyle

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 536 total)