Search Results for 'cartesian'

[dspence]

Dear Georgia Braille,

As you state in your question, Section 3.4.3.4 states, "Locational (Secondary) Lines...tick marks on number lines and graphs...must be 1/2 inch total...1/4 inch on each side of line... For clocks, the tick marks should straddle the circumference line and extend no less than 3/16 inch and no more than 1/4 inch on either side of the circumference." Our feeling was that 1/2 inch for clock was too long. The tick marks on clocks can range from 6/16 inches to 1/2 inches on the circumference line. The smaller the clock face the shorter the tick mark.

6.6.2.2 3rd bullet, "Tick marks on the horizontal and vertical axis lines...should cross the axis lines, 1/4 inch on either side of the axis line." This was meant to imply a total of 1/2 inch for the tick marks on the lines of a Cartesian Graph. Example 10 in the TG Supplement shows where tick marks on a Cartesian Coordinate graph do extend on both sides of the X and Y axis lines.

The examples shown on 6-40 and 6-41 are the braille examples...meaning that the TG Guidelines do NOT show the print. These braille examples were meant to show the alignment and placement of the labels in relation to the vertical grid line. They were not meant to be interpreted as "tick marks." These short lines on one side of the x and y-axis lines are not tick marks, they are vertical grid lines (an extention of the grid lines).

In response to your last comment about none of the examples showing the the vertical grid lines being 1/2 inch...these examples are reduced in size in order to fit on the print page. In actuality...these vertical grid lines should be 1/4 inches.

Hope this helps, if you have more questions, let me know! Diane

[dspence]

Dear Julie,

The TG Guidelines manual is online and can be either viewed online or printed. The TG Supplement of Examples is an additional document that accompanies the manual. The plan is for it to be available for purchase from the American Printing House (APH). APH is in the process of making arrangements for the production of this book and will send out a notice to let everyone know when it can be purchased. The Supplement is comprised of 35 print and braille examples illustrating various points covered in the TG Guidelines manual.

In answer to your other question about "blank space around labels on a Cartesian graph"
- 5.10.5 states, "Label placement needs to be at least 1/8 inch and no more than 1/4 inch from the compoent to which it belongs."
- 6.6.1.3 states that "...some of the numbers can be omitted from the vertical and horizontal axis lines (only even numbes or only odd numbers). A TN note explaining the omission is not necessary..."
- 6.6.2.2 8th bullet states, "Plotted points on lines or objects must be distince from the lines or objects on which they are placed. It is important...to use 1/8 inch blank space all around a point to separate it from the surrounding material."
- 6.6.2.3 8th bullet states, "...coordinate point lables such as A, B, C, D should be placed to the top left of the points to which they refer. Where a label would cover or interfere with vital information (e.g. grid or axis line), the label may be placed to the top right of the point/line. If neither position is possible, the label should be placed to the bottom left or, lastely, bottom right of the object."

Hope this helps, let me know if you have further questions. Diane

[Chris Clemens]

We are trying to fully understand the application of tick marks on various graphics. When are tick marks 1/2 inch long and when are tick marks 1/4 inch long on graphics involving axis lines? Or should tick marks always be 1/2 inch long whether they are on one side or both sides of axis lines?
In general, tick marks for numbers lines and graphs are stated in the tactile guidelines as being 1/2 inch long with 1/4 inch on EACH side of axis lines [3.4.3.4]. In the general rules for gridded graphs [6.6.1.2], the guidelines state that tick marks should be 1/2 inch long with 1/4 inch on EITHER side of the line.
In the subsection for Cartesian Graphs [6.6.2.2] and the section for Line Graphs [6.6.4.4], the guidelines state that tick marks should cross or straddle “the axis lines, 1/4 inch (6 millimeters) on EITHER side of the axis lines.” Because of guideline 3.4.3.4, it seems we are to infer that the tick marks are 1/2 inch long although in these situations it is not specifically stated.
The examples on pages 6-40 and 6-41 show the tick marks only on one side and not straddling the axis lines. The examples of tick marks on bar graphs (pages 6-44) also show tick marks on only one side. NONE of these examples appear to show 1/2 inch long tick marks.

[Julie Sumwalt]

The TG guidelines keep referring to a Supplement and Examples found there. I can't find this supplement. Was it supposed to be in the as-yet-unavailable print copy? I'm pretty sure there should be blank space around labels on a Cartesian graph, and I'm particularly looking for a reference or example of that.

[dspence]

Hi Katrina...I've contacted the BANA TG Guidelines authors and this is our combined response:

The example of the Graphics Symbols Page (GSP) that is shown in the Guidelines is taken from a tactile graphics supplementary volume of a physical geography book that has both maps and graphs. One of the points that this GSP was meant to show was how the symbols may be categorised: “On maps” and “On graphs”.

In a Mathematics textbooks, we do not include the symbols for the components of Cartesian coordinate graphs such as grid lines, axis lines, point symbols, plotted lines, etc. because it limits their use on other graphics throughout the volume. For example if we defined a certain line as the axis line, we would not be able to use that line for anything else within the volume. Also it is not really valuable content to simply define a point as a point. or a line as a primary line. We have many examples in the guidelines where lines are included in a drawings but not identified in a key for the braille reader. (See Unit 5, the Patterns example--the dashed lines are not labeled or identified in a key. Unit 6, section 6.6.6.7 bar graphs, the "Pay for Animal Actors" graph does not include a key for the axis lines and lead lines. The GSP example is not a Mathematics specific example, and was not intended to recommend that mathematic diagrams symbols and lines should to be listed. It should also be noted that the intent of the GSP, unlike the Special Symbols Page, that shows “unusual” symbols, is to show commonly used symbols (rivers, mountains, water). This eliminates the need to repeat them throughout the volume as well as ensures that graphics symbols used for the same item are always the same.

A simple answer to a complex question is that a key must be included for the reader when something is used within a graphic that needs to be identified for a student. Unless the reader needed to be able to identify a certain area on the graphic as the "grid lines" the grid lines do not need to be identified in a key.

Use of keys to include information you listed in your email is a misinterpretation of the intent of the GSP. The Tactile Graphic Supplement that accompanies the Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics shows many example of the proper use of keys. If you have any further questions, please let me know.

Diane

[dspence]

Diane Spence's response:
Is this transcription single-sided or interpoint? My answer is also coming from the "textbook" perspective and NOT from the perspective of this item as part of a "standardized test booklet."

1). For the convenience of the braille reader, is the transcriber allowed to move the question to a position on a facing braille page (similar to a graphic key placement)? DS: yes the transcriber is allowed to move the question to a facing page and have the graphic follow on an odd page. If this is a one time situation within the volume, you are correct in stating that you would place a TN at the point of the single presentation. However, if you had several instances of this situation and the book was a single-sided book, you may want to add a note on the TN page explaining the presentation throughout the volume.
2). Is there a preference? DS: I think it is in the best interest of the braille reader to have the question and diagram on facing pages when you can get it to fit. It keeps the braille reader from having to flip back and forth or read "sandwich" style (one hand on each page, on top of each other with the braille page in between). This philosophy was agreed upon by the BANA TG Committee and the primary reason we said that keys should be on a page facing the diagram if it wouldn't fit on the same page.
3). Also, according to the new guidelines, would the blank page be numbered? DS: If the material is for students in Grade 4 and above...and is double-sided, then you would account for the blank braille page just as you have done in your example. Every braille page (front and back) should be assigned a braille page number. It is an agency decision whether or not the even braille page numbers are printed on the page. Even if the even braille page number is not printed on the braille page, it is assigned or reserved for that braille page.
If this is for a single-sided braille transcription, then the backs of the braille page are not counted in the running page counts. In your example above, the "braille text from previous page" information would be printed on braille page 17, the question would be on braille page 18 (the facing page) and the graphic would be on braille page 19.
4). Sometimes in this same textbook, a grid will apply to more than one question and the questions will also fit with the above placement. But, other times the questions may be too long to be placed in this manner. Is consistency an issue? Is it one way or the other throughout the book… or is each set of questions considered separately when placing graphics? DS: I think consistency is always important, however, I think each set of questions should be treated individually. If you have a situation where one cartesian graph could be used for multiple questions, would you present the graph first followed by the questions or would you present the questions first followed by the graph? It may be difficult to make one decision for how to present graphics in an entire book, and then force each different graphic situation to fit into that decision. As long as you remember to keep the student informed about how the information is presented, so they don't have to "wonder" where things are, you should be fine.

[Chris Clemens]

Please see the attached document showing an example of a cartesian grid and lengthy text. The transcriber wants to ensure he is adhering to guidelines and meeting the needs of the reader in the most beneficial way.

Thank you.
Marie Amerson

[Lindy Walton]

I am not familiar with the software you are using. We have always made our own Cartesian graphs and used various types of reusable tactile items for our students to use such as tacks on a corkboard with rubber bands or wiki-stix. I have copied your question to the Computer-Assisted Transcription forum -- check there for answers, as well as here for ideas from other readers.

Lindy Walton

[betty.marshall]

This information is covered in the Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics which is available for download from the BANA website. Near the beginning of Unit 6 Mathematical and Scientific Diagrams there is a chart which indicates when to use the numeric indicator. You omit them for Cartesian Graphs, but include them for Line Graphs. If you consider this to be a Cartesian graph, then you would omit the numeric indicator.
Betty

[dspence]

Kindergarten – Grade 3 The new Tactile Graphic Guidelines state that for readers in kindergarten through grade 3, objects should NOT be represented using braille symbols, i.e. do not use the shape indicator [simbraille]$4[/simbraille] for a square shown in print. In all instances for grades K-3, shapes should be show as a tactile graphic. Full braille cells should not be used for the creation of bar graphs in K-3.

Grades 4 and up The only instance in the TG Guidelines where braille symbols are used for an outline (box around text) is in the example of how to present a box around a digital clock. The perimeter of a digital clock should be included in the presentation as an outline around the numbers. The outline can be shown either as a spur wheel outline or represented by a series of unspaced braille symbols for grades 4 and up.

The TG Guidelines do not recommend using braille cells/symbols to make simple tactile graphics (simple boxes) at any grade level. Another example of when braille symbols can be used is to represent the lines in XY Cartesian Coordinate graphs, number lines, or stem and leaf plots.

If you want to send me an example of what you are specifically referring to, I will give you my opinion as to how it should be presented. Let me know if you have any further questions. I've attached a file showing the braille symbols that can be used for the outline around a digital clock with examples in simbraille.

Diane

[Chris Clemens]

You are correct that the numeric indicator is not required for measurement tools such as a ruler or protractor. You haven't said whether your graphic is just an image of what a protractor looks like, or whether there is also an actual angle measurement added to the illustration. Since these usually have to be enlarged to the full width of the braille page in order to have room for all the labels, and since you want the completed tactile graphic to be as uncluttered as possible, I would suggest that you do [u]not [/u]show the numbers for each 10 degree increment. This is a similar concept as simplifying a cartesian graph to show only increments of 5 or 10 along the axis lines with unlabeled tick marks inbetween. There is no need to show all of the tick marks either, as braille protractors cannot accurately measure very small increments. I would suggest making tick marks for every 10 degrees, and labelling the 30, 60, and 90, etc. measurements. I'm sorry that I do not have an example at home that I can attach for you to see.
Feel free to post either a scan or your page or request further clarification if necessary.

Betty

[Chris Clemens]

I have asked this question myself numerous times and wish there was a better explanation that I could give you. What we have come up with in our office as an indication is that Cartesian graphs use the four quadrants divided by the x- and y-asis. Often you have plotted points on such a graph, but it could also display a line graph. Hope this helps.
Betty

P.S. Please also note the information included in an earlier post entitled "Labeling numbers on cartesian grid".
edited by betty.marshall on 10/19/2010

[Chris Clemens]

Hello there,
Could you clarify the difference between [u]line graphs[/u] and [u]Cartesian graphs[/u]?

The materials I have from the NBA conference in Eugene, OR last year indicate that line graphs DO use numeric indicators, while Cartesian graphs do NOT, but I can't figure out the difference between the two types of graphs.

Thanks!
Rebecca

[Chris Clemens]

A Cartesian graph is one which shows numerical relationships by drawing points, lines, curves, or geometric shapes on the Cartesian plane. The Cartesian plane consists of two or more axes joined at a single point called the origin and possibly a grid to help index points on the graph. Numeric indicators should not precede the numbers on the x- and y-axis lines regardless of whether the text is transcribed in literary or Nemeth (mathematics and science) code.
Since the reader is going to graph the equation on this grid (and it seems to fit the definition above), I would not use the numberic indicator on the values shown along the x- and y-axis. If the reader was going to use it to create a scatter plot or a bar graph, I would use the numeric indicator. Since the Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics is still a DRAFT document, and has not yet been approved by BANA, it would not be incorrect (at this point in time) to use the numeric indicator.

Betty

[Chris Clemens]

Thanks for the prompt reply to our question. When I shared the answer, I learned that my reference to this as a cartesian grid may have swayed the answer a bit. I should have noted it as a grid or graph - we're not sure which because the x and y labels are throwing us off.

Please look closely at the sample and offer an opinion on whether it is, in fact, a grid or a graph, and offer an answer based on that. The sample attached to the original message is a bit fuzzy, but the main point to note is that each axis begins at 0 and ends with an arrow labeled with either x or y.

Thanks so much and know that we look forward to your response.

Marie