kdejute
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July 11, 2023 at 11:51 am in reply to: format of UEB displayed spatial addition problem and numeric passage indicators #40254
kdejute
ModeratorThank you for sharing your question, Susan!
I need to consult with other committee members to give you a full answer.
But I can start with:
BANA's "Provisional Guidance on Transcribing Mathematics in UEB" (Approved May 2019) says (in part),
For displayed mathematical expressions, use blank lines preceding and following; and indent 2 cells from the runover position of the material to which they apply. –second paragraph under 3. General format
That means the spatial addition problem in your example should have its left margin at cell 5.
Now I'm going to ask others about placement of the numeric passage indicator and terminator.
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorSusan,
I'm glad we took the opportunity to communicate directly and look more closely at some of the number lines you have in front of you.
A very short summary of our discussion might be: Keep any number line that gives unique information, but do not reproduce multiple blank number lines that are exactly the same for a non-consumable book.
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorSusan,
I hear you! Zero to fifteen is a wide number line!
In short, runovers of number lines begin in cell 3 (with the initial line of the number line starting in cell 1), with a tick mark beginning the runover line; no continuation indicator should be used.
You probably already know, but please let me state: line graphics (NOT braille dots) should be used for all number lines in a 2nd grade transcription.
Those guidelines are from the BANA 2022 Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics, which have been approved by the BANA Board and are now being carefully prepared for general distribution.
Please let us know if you need anything more or different!
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorShelley,
A possibly useful way of reading the "may" you asked about in the Guidance for Transcription Using the Nemeth Code within UEB Contexts is that it means we can either 1) use the single-word switch indicator or 2) close Nemeth Code before the word and then open Nemeth Code again after the word. Either way, the word is transcribed in UEB.
–Kyle
March 22, 2023 at 2:30 am in reply to: Listing Nemeth Code Terminator and Single-word Switch on SS page #39938kdejute
ModeratorMelissa,
Certainly you are not the only person who has this question. I think I can offer some insight.
Unlike the other symbols on a Special Symbols page, the Nemeth Code terminator and the single-word switch indicator are Nemeth Code symbols. Everything else is a UEB symbol. (Okay, if the Special Symbols page includes a category of “Nemeth Horizontal Number Line Symbols” then not eeeverything else on that Special Symbols page is a UEB symbol, but you know what I mean.)
Although, it seems obvious that the "Nemeth Code terminator" is a Nemeth Code symbol, it might not be so obvious when you consider that the "opening Nemeth Code indicator" is a UEB symbol. So, on the Special Symbols page, we explicitly label the Nemeth Code terminator and the single-word switch indicator with the parenthetical "(Nemeth Code symbol)".
I hope that helps in some way!
–KyleP.S. The opening Nemeth Code indicator is a UEB symbol; it happens when UEB is the code in effect.
kdejute
ModeratorShelley,
For better and worse, you are correct that a full expression should be within Nemeth Code switch indicators, including expressions that are inconveniently made up of a lot of words.
So, yes, something like:
P(likes avocados ∩ doesn't like Avocados)
should all be within Nemeth Code, which means no contractions and unspaced symbols of operation.
Braille on!
–Kyle-
This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by
kdejute. Reason: I meant UNspaced symbols of OPERATION not comparison 😬
March 20, 2023 at 6:09 pm in reply to: Nemeth Code for Math and Science- Vector Arrows – Omit or Not #39933kdejute
ModeratorGood day, Mary.
Thank you for your question.
In short, no.
The vectors in your example are the lowercase, bold letters. A vector is a single quantity–often denoted by one letter–having direction as well as magnitude.
The pairs of capital letters with a single-barb right-pointing arrow are line segments. And I believe your Nemeth Code notation for those with the arrows is spot on (for example: _% ",p,q<$33@o] _:)
Please let us know if you need anything more or different.
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorAck! How did I miss this question for a few days?! I apologize.
Thank you for sharing your question, Laurie.
Your transcription is correct. It matches the print you shared exactly (i.e., A equals P open parenthesis one plus the fraction "r over n" close parenthesis superscript "nt").
You are very right that no grade 1 indicators are necessary for this expression.
The plus sign terminates the numeric mode initiated by the 1's numeric indicator. The grade 1 mode initiated by that same numeric indicator is in effect until the space after the closing braille grouping indicator. (third paragraph of GTM §1.2.2)
Braille on!
–Kylekdejute
ModeratorLaurie,
I see that you have the expression "'60.00 over 540.00' × 1". The fraction in that expression is a "simple numeric fraction" (even including its decimals!). So, the transcription
#FJ4JJ/EDJ4JJ"8#A
is correct.
–Kyle
February 6, 2023 at 4:37 pm in reply to: Mathematical structure for dividing mathematical expressions #39808kdejute
ModeratorThank you for your question.
In the example you describe, I would break before the baseline symbol of comparison and also before the fraction line.
Your desire to keep the fraction unbroken is considerate, and I understand why you would want to do that. One of the reasons we follow a hierarchy for dividing a long mathematical expression is to keep logical units of the expression together/unbroken for ease of reading.
HOWEVER, another of the reasons we follow a hierarchy for dividing a long mathematical expression is to make revisiting the expression intuitive, and we do that by always dividing at the highest priority/hierarchy level first (i.e., a baseline symbol of comparison). That way, wherever possible, an expression that spans multiple braille lines will have at least one line that begins with a baseline symbol of comparison.
Please let me know if that helps or not.
Braille on!
–KyleP.S. For what it is worth, I understand the statement that "Usually the best place to break is before a comparison sign" to mean that a comparison sign is not a good place to break when it is part of something other than the baseline/main expression (e.g., an equals sign in Sigma notation, like that shown in GTM §7.9).
December 22, 2022 at 7:52 pm in reply to: use of numeric indicator in number lines in UEB Math/Science #39722kdejute
ModeratorSusan,
Thank you for your question!
I would not use the numeric indicator for the whole numbers or for the fractions that are below the number line. This follows the intent of the 2010 Guidelines and Standards for Tactile Graphics. [Pssst! Not using numeric indicators at the beginnings of labels below a number line also follows what the 2022 GSTG will say. Though not yet published, the text of the 2022 GSTG has been approved by the BANA Board and is now being carefully prepared for general distribution.]
–Kyle
P.S. If I had a mixed number below a number line, then I would use a numeric indicator before that mixed number's fractional part. Your example does not have that; I just want to be wildly thorough. A related thread here on Ask an Expert is Time on number lines.
kdejute
ModeratorJulie,
It has taken me a few days to get back to you about this, and I apologize.
I know I worked on the CNIB course practices May through August of 2020. I *think* I worked on those practices about five hours each week. Then I took some time away before preparing the Pretest. Preparing the Pretest – including a sort of "one-woman team proofreading" where I recorded myself reading the braille out loud and then played back that recording as I looked at the print – took me at least two weeks of maybe two hours each day. I heard back from CNIB in a week about my Pretest results but had to take some time to focus on other work stuff before completing the final test, which I think took as long as the Pretest to prepare.
So, I would *estimate* I took a thirteen-month span with a total of 60 hours worked to complete the CNIB course. That is a rough and probably ambitious estimate. I would not be surprised if it took someone 100 hours or more to do the practices, pretest, and final test.
I was helped by moving through the practices with a colleague. We exchanged error reports after proofreading each others' practices and discussed sticky issues as we encountered them.
I hope that helps. Please let me know if you could use something different or more.
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorThe consensus from the committee is in!
Braille Formats 2016 is our source for this formatting issue. In an exercise format of 1-5, 3-5, we should format displayed math expressions in 7-9 with space before and after, per BF2016 §10.7.
Our understanding is that a format of 7-9 allows the braille user to most easily pinpoint the beginning of the expression (or beginning of each expression if there were more than one).
🤓 Further citation: The second paragraph under 3. General format (GTM 1.4.1) in BANA's Provisional Guidance on Transcribing Mathematics in UEB says,
Follow Braille Formats: Principles of Print-to-Braille Transcription, 2016 for the format of displayed literary text except for paragraph format, which is never blocked. For displayed mathematical expressions, use blank lines preceding and following; and indent 2 cells from the runover position of the material to which they apply.
Please let us know if you need something more or different!
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorWell, first, please let me give you the annoyingly diplomatic answer: If you are consistent, either format is likely to work for the student.
I personally format that kind of thing as displayed material. But let me confer with our NBA colleagues and get back to you with a more supported answer.
–Kyle
kdejute
ModeratorCynthia,
Your message came through without any attachment! Can you try again?
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